maroun.c

Why are you setting up two refugiums? It appears you even have a third one (the main under the display tank that is divided in two)?

If the power fails or the pump stops flowing to the fishroom, the chiller will no longer be able to help the display. Additionally, water will flow from the fishroom into the main sump, so make sure it can hold that much water.

The Marineland Maxijet 5500 Utility Pump has a 13' head pressure rating, three year warranty, can be run internally or externally and uses about 71 watts. http://www.reefaddicts.com/content.p...m-Utility-Pump

You would want a single controller that turns the heaters on or the chiller on. This prevents overlap. You can also set up that up so there is a 1 or 2 degree margin before the opposite turns on, to avoid such an overlap. Remember, flow rate through chillers is usually around 500gph so you'll want to stay close to the manufacturer's recommendations.

Now for more interesting stuff where I'll need some suggestions:
this is the system plan with most of the plumbing and position of most important components.

The fishroom is in an attick around 6 feet higher from the sump 7.5 feet including height of the tanks in the fishroom. Overall I’m satisfied with the layout. But would appreciate opinions on the following:
-Circulation pump: would you go with a high pressure external pump? Most of those would consume around 400W and need to be external as well as provide most probably more flow than I really need? I have recently got an Aquabee 5000 which has a max head of 15.6 feet 4.7 meters, consuming 75 W and can be used submerged or outside the water. Other options would be the Ocean runner 6500 or Eheim 1262 or the Aquabee 7000...
-Chiller position on the return line from the Fishroom system:
Do you think the chiller on the return line would cause sump and tank to cool too much before the fishroom setup cools enough for the chiller to stop?
How would you position heaters to avoid them receiving the cold water from the chiller before the tank chills and turning on? Or the chiller getting most of the heated water from the heaters and turning on before the tank is heated enough and then having the chiller and heaters again working against each other?
Best solution I see so far is to add a couple of temp probes in the tank and have them control the heaters and chillers, via a couple of controllers. Which then causes the problem of having all the heaters being shut down in case the probe or controller fault…
Thanks for your suggestions.

Under the tank there are two fuges the one near the water change tank being a cryptic one. in the fishroom will add another larger fuge so that total fuge volume is around 20-25% of total system volume. On this build I will try my best (2 skimmers, Huge Fuge, RDSB) to achieve a low PO4 NO3 system without having to run PO4 Reactor, Denitrator, Vodka or BP... If I fail then I'll consider the method that involves the least daily manipulation and observation need...

If the power fails or the pump stops flowing to the fishroom, the chiller will no longer be able to help the display. Additionally, water will flow from the fishroom into the main sump, so make sure it can hold that much water.

That is true. not sure how else I would place it as it's too big to place in the stand or surrounding cabinets, not to mention the noise and heat...
any suggestion on a better placement? I considered feeding it from a pump in the frag and return water to the frag tank in the fishroom but that would either cause it to start and stop very frequently or make the frag run very cool? placing it in the feeding line would still cause the same issue as on the return line if the pump fails. Any suggestin on where to place it as this has been on my mind since some time now. another option I'm considering is very fast flow through sump and fish room setup which should equalize temperatures rather fast???
Appreciate any suggestion here.

The Marineland Maxijet 5500 Utility Pump has a 13' head pressure rating, three year warranty, can be run internally or externally and uses about 71 watts

I think we get the same one from Maxijet under the name Visijet could be to differentiate the 110 220 V versions. I currently own 2 of the 1175 G ones 3000L have to chek the head rating... gues I should be able to get the largest model.

If you follow the flow rate, you shouldn't have a colder zone in one section necessarily. And you can choose where the water comes back into the system from the chiller. It could go right back to the display for example. The output of the chilled water and the temperature probe location need to be thought out to avoid excessive cycling of the chiller. The variation in temperature would be around 1 degree differential.

If the attic is really hot, the chiller will have to work harder. It needs to vent out its own heat, and it needs to be cleaned of any dust build up so it can breathe.

Attic is vented by a 4 inch exaust tube and an overated 6 inch Turbine which can be dialled down or up according to how efficient it is.
Not sure if bringing water back from fishroom to tank would work due to the bubbles itll bring directly in the tank but I can always try... Guess I'll just have to wait and see how the temp control goes once the tank is running and take it from there.

You can have the chiller's output pour into the display tank's overflow if you like.

Put a "T" in your return to the tank. Run water through the chiller and back to the sump.

The "T" on the return is energy efficient and I was thinking of plumbing that way, however, if the return pump fails, chiller is down too. I currently had been running a separate pump full time (not energy efficient) with input from skimmer zone and output to return zone inches before returned to display tank.

Marc, how do you have your chiller plumbed?

Thanks for the suggestions.
Come to think of it with or without the T the current setup will not work as when I shut down the return pumps when feeding fish or corals the chiller will have no water circulation. Can't hook the chiller and flow on same braker so they stop together as they are on different electrical supply (chiller will not run on UPS... )
guess I'll either have to run it on a pump getting water from the frag and returning it to the frag unless I endup beinging it tot he stand or in the cabinetry next to it which I prefer not to unless I really have as it's going to be noisy and cause loads of heat which I'm not sure if my vents can clear... Another option would be to have it in the fishroom and supply and drain it separatly from the tanks sump directly but that would mean breaking up the wall to hide 2 more tubes in it which is too late to do now!!!
Guys give me options. !!!

I don't use a chiller. Never have.

Usually the feed line to a chiller is 1" in diameter. With those giant holes, you don't have room for two 1" pipes to fit? What about putting the chiller up against the wall near the display, but have the chiller's vent go through the wall and up into the attic (or even out of the roof) to eliminate that heat source? You said it is noisy too. Noisy like rattling, or just because it hums?

Can't skip a chiller in summer with midday temp in summer hitting 40 Degrees celsius (around 310 + Kelvin I think) Unless my vent system is super efficient, that would be just great.
the giant holes house 4" tubing which makes 3 U turns before reaching the fishroom so can't install anything in them anymore. Venting out of the roof wouldn't please the neighbors as i'm in an appartment!!! not sure if they can make some metallic cover for the chiller on it's back side and vent the whole thing in a tube to the fishroom. No rattling sound just the hum but maybe a sound proof closet would take care of that!!!
If I am to move the chiller down to the stand or nearby cabinet how would you plumb it from the sump?
Here's my sump plan:



One last question on the sumps baffles would you place them 1 inch appart or more?

Think I just solved it but just need your confirmation.
How about I feed the fishroom from the skimmers partition (should I pump before the skimmers or close to the output of the skimmer?) to the fishroom and most probably switch the chiller to the feed line instead of the drain so it's not gravity fed. then have the drain from the fishroom go in the main sump return area.
so basically warmer water passes through chiller and then into fishroom setup (I can have the chiller output in the return area of the fishroom sump so that it does not overcool the frag tank. and have a portion of unchilled water go through the frag tank and RDSB. Then the colled water drains down to the return partition of the main sump (would have to add a bubble tower and baffles there) where it's pumped into the DT and then back in the tanks overflow to be taken to the chiller. Would definitly add a temp controller in the tank to shut down chiller in case due to some weird waer kinetics or any design flaw more cool waer ends up circulating in the sump and DT than going up to the fishroom to cause chiller to shut. I can always double or triple the flow from sump to tank and fishroom so that temp normalizes better...
Would that work? anything more you would worry about

Maroun,

Curious, what is the display room average temp expected to be in the hottest part of your summer season? Marc, so do you get away without the chiller because your fish room and/or house interior gets air conditioned during the hottest periods of summer? Because if Maroun's display room is too hot in summer the chiller is going to be working overtime to cool tank and display room? Also, what your substrate plan for tank? Plywood to stand and foam or no foam?

ReefOCD,
Maximum outside temperature could go up to 45 Degrees Celsius (315 K) for few days during hot summer The max temp would basically be around midday till 4-5 PM then usually temp drops a bit. usual temp in summer days would vary between 25-35 celsius (300-310 K)That would only happen in mid summmer (Jul AUg) rest of the year is moderate temperatures in Spring and Autumn with temp ranging between 15-25 (290-300K)mainly Dec-Feb is cold with soem very cold days. Appartment is built with double walls for temp isolation and double glass but I still have to see how hot the room will get in mid summeras we moved in few months back... basically temp should be moderate. What worries me most is basically the lighting as this is teh first time I switch to full 250 MH and I expect much more heat production than on my 150 G, yet with the added volume and colder location as new location hsould be a bit colder and the added ventilation It should not be a problem thoratically, at least I'm hoping so. On hot days the airconditioning would also be on, but I worry about when I'm on travel and my wife and kids are not at home for few days...
For Substrate, planning a shallow sand bed in tank and RDSB in fishroom.
Was planning Plywood, foam and then tank on top bu t builder is suggesting to go with foam only or foam, plywood and tank on top this way the pressure will eb more on the foam and it will compres on pressure points. Which kinda makes sense as when you place the plywood and then foam and tank the pressure is spread over a large surface but when the surface is limeted to the stand top surface only it will cause the foam to shape up better absorbing any defects better. any thoughts on this?

Makes sense. Your tank builder's experience with large tanks is most valuable at this time. Will you water test tank where it sits now or on the stand?

Agreed.
Guess it makes more sense to water test it when on the stand so he can check everything in it's final location as well as get an idea about stand/ Tank leveling which might shift a bit under weight as the feet dive in teh rubber supports and well as the foam under the tank compresses. So I get the chance to correct and misleveling when the tank is drained...